I guess it’s a good thing I've been home more this week and
able to update Gankerbumping….
I knew that James 315 had others writing Minerbumping for
him and now I understand why. He's now a space lawyer and he published a 16 page BOOK on The Mitanni.com today
talking about the bans that took place. I’m NOT kidding. There is a 16 page “article”.
You can find the link HERE.
I made a pot of coffee and sat down to the read the thing
and the following is what I took from it.
James states the following on the first page.
Before we get started,
I'd like to address those who carry a particular attitude when it comes to rule
enforcement. They're the people who make comments like, "It's CCP's game,
they can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, you can leave." This
authoritarian-friendly mindset, I've found, is most common among the very
young, the very old, and the very dull.
It’s funny to me he accuses people of having an “authoritarian-friendly mindset” when
James is the leader of what I’ve heard many identify as a cult. Let me also
point out the numerous times I’ve seen whoever is writing Minerbumping say “maybe
EVE isn’t the game for you”. Now that James has gotten a taste of his own
medicine he’s crying?
James then goes on to write about what has occurred in the
past in EVE Gameplay. There is page after page of him citing previous examples
of others doing different nefarious deeds and what was done to the people who
did them. It honestly made me think of the kid in the schoolyard who got caught
doing something bad, so he cries to the teacher (CCP) about what others did.
There is something I understand that others, especially those
who follow James, don’t seem to understand. EVE ONLINE isn’t a board game. The rules
can never be set in stone as the game has to grow and change to keep CCP in
business. CCP has to respond to changing situations and try to draw new players
(money) into the game. What has occurred in the past doesn’t matter. Who got
away with what in the past doesn’t matter. For someone who says he wants to
create content James doesn’t seem to understand that.
As for what happened in the Bonus Room with Erotica 1, I can
see the problems it created for CCP and I’m glad it’s not something I had to
deal with. As a company CCP had to deal with saying “play the villain” while on
the other hand worrying about public perception. The last thing you want is public
opinion to be “EVE? The game where they allow things like getting players on
comms to harass and humiliate them? Why would anyone play THAT!?!
It doesn’t matter what really happened in the Bonus room,
what matters is PUBLIC PERCEPTION. That’s
why I understood what CCP Falcon was trying to say when he posted on the forums.
I understand why he isn’t going to come out and draw a clear line in the sand
that James and others seem to want. Let me put it like this, EVE could not grow
and evolve if its rules were set in stone, the game would become stagnate and
die.
Now I know James is trying to scare people in his post and
make it seem like CCP could arbitrarily just ban you for no reason. I’m sure CCP made mistakes when the banns were
handed out. No one is perfect. That’s between
CCP and the players and I hope CCP is willing to listen to some of the ppl if
they really didn’t step over the line and can offer proof.
All of this goes back to perception. CCP had to do something
over the bonus room and the people who still did them. They had to take a
stance and they did. Does that stance follow actions CCP has taken in the past?
No. Management has changed and so has EVE itself.
I’ll say this; I’ve
never understood the draw of doing “Bonus Rooms”. I’ve listened to the Sokhar
recording and I had to make myself listen to the whole thing. I don’t understand
the mindset where you would want to get people on comms and make them do stupid
shit or humiliate themselves for laughs, then making the recording public. Yes,
I enjoy screwing with people IN game but I’ve always felt that getting someone
on comms to keep screwing with them is
childish and immature. That’s why I had a hard time listening to the Sokhar
recordings.
James also goes on to try and speculate the actions that
took place that got people banned. I doubt CCP is ever going to say. If CCP were
to give reasons it would be drawing that clear line that James and the others
want so badly. CCP Falcon said the following:
What we will do, is
continue to use best judgment on a case by case basis to ensure that real life
harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to involve
themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our
community.
Sounds to me like CCP used their best judgment on an issue
they felt was Real Life Harassment. Will we ever know what that issue is? No we won't. Why is it so hard for James and Co. to understand CCP doesn’t want
you doing douchebag things to each other outside of the game?? It affects
public perception and CCP’s wallet.
GV
Special NOTE. I approached this entire subject from a marketing/advertising stance as that is what I know. I wont even approach the possible legal ramifications CCP may have had to deal with as I am NOT qualified.
Special NOTE. I approached this entire subject from a marketing/advertising stance as that is what I know. I wont even approach the possible legal ramifications CCP may have had to deal with as I am NOT qualified.
I looked at jimmie the 'whimperers' statement which is a blinding wall of text and most of it complete garbage. Thanks for translating it Gorila, no one else probably can and what you say makes perfect sense so you are either 10 times smarter than jimmie or he speaks complete bullshit.
ReplyDeleteFunny how he chose to put in on mittani's 'I am a childish thug' website instead of MB, maybe he realized his bullshit couldn't stand up without mits dumping his own putrid shit to it every ten minutes LOL
Kalynn is that you?
DeleteI read all 16 pages of what he wrote. Assuming that that James isn't talking out of his ass, I find myself mostly agreeing with him. That's saying something because I rarely agree with him on anything. He does make some legitimate points.
ReplyDelete"I wont even approach the possible legal ramifications CCP may have had to deal with as I am NOT qualified."
I am not qualified either, but I will express a legal opinion. YMMV. Harassment through the telephone is illegal be that either a land line or a cell phone. Those are voice comms, and the law treats voice comms specially. Communication over team speak, ventrillo, skype, magic jack, vontage, etc... is protected by said laws. Harassment over the phone is defined as follows: hangups, threats, cussing/swearing, repeated calling. People have gone to jail for it. Hangups and repeated calling are unique to phones, but threats and bad language can take both verbal (the above mentioned ts, vent, skype, etc...) and textual (sms text messages, forum posts, facebook, etc...). Teamspeak falls under the voice comms. So yeah, verbal communication is real life, so any harassment over it can and does have legal ramifications. This is where I disagree with James. IRL harassment can take many forms. I think that CCP is not only trying to protect its customers, but also themselves, for the reasons states, and to make people think twice to use the game as a platform to find victims, aka predatory behavior. Erotica 1 did this and was punished. Rightly so, I might add.
However, where I do agree with him is that CCP should have some hard evidence to back up their ban hammer waves. What is the nature of this evidence, if they have any evidence at all of any wrongdoing? Of course, CCP is keeping a tight lid on it, and for good reason. Banning someone because they might have done something outside the game is insane.
Additionally, if what he was saying is correct, if the same GM who issued the bans also reviewed the appeals, that is like getting convicted in a court of law, and then having the same judge who convicted you review your appeal.
My good friend Gorila Vengaza, both you and James make very good and valid points. James made good points on banning players for out of game activities while you made good points on why it was done. Both of your arguments are legitimate. For James though, I had to sift through alot of BS about what happened in the past, Riptard Teg, Erotica 1, etc.... Being a newer player, I found it interesting to read.
The E1 incident brings to light one other aspect that I just thought about. EvE Online is a game, but a community has formed around the game. There is open dialogue going both ways here. Members of the community stood up and said "We will not accept this behavior in our community." Considering that the community is made up of players, and without the players, CCP wouldn't be in business, CCP's decision to ban E1 was also a political one.
I think the message that CCP is trying to send is this: You want to collect tears, fine. You want to scam other players? Fine. You want to get revenge on other players? Fine, as long as it is in game. You want to humiliate other players on out-of-game voice chat? That is a bannable offense.
BM
I agree with both sides ( besides the inability of Gorila to write an article without having to insult someone, or hurr durr grrr Code grr james 315 etc etc)
DeleteThe point I got from this entire saga is- you can be banned via mere association, now let me point out a perfect example.
If someone in Antiganking channel was to start going on about how they are going to kill Code members in real life etc(which they do daily), and they were warranted a ban due to the EULA.
How would you feel being a moderator of that channel and you got banned just by mere association due to someone else's actions?
Would that be fair to you?
Or -
Is it because its Code/Minerbumpers/Awoxers that got banned it doesn't matter to you regardless if its fair or not?
Oh and I forgot to add.
DeleteWhen you found out you were banned - CCP wouldnt give you a reason besides - You were found to be involved with an in game group promoting real life death threats on other players which is a violation of the EULA.
When you asked - what was said or who said it - they didnt want to know you.
:D
Calm down lol.
DeleteIf you can provide proof of your claims about code then by all means feel free to share your "evidence" :D
As you're - to my surprise - not posting random junk as usual, I'm inclined to answer this:
Delete"If someone in Antiganking channel was to start going on about how they are going to kill Code members in real life etc(which they do daily), and they were warranted a ban due to the EULA."
If there is even the remote possibility that someone means that seriously and it's not the usual emotional overreaction "waaa waaa, I kill you!!!11" after he was ganked, I'd petition and kick him myself and I'm sure each and every other mod wouldn't act differently. The channel is known for having a zero tolerance policy regarding foul language, trolling and personal attacks. You should know best, considering how many of your alts we have kicked so far. Some of the most prominent players have been kicked from the channel because of this despite severe threats. Having said that, it is of course possible that we don't see everything but we encourage our channel residents to evemail a mod if such behaviour goes unchecked. So far each and every case has been dealt with swiftly. I'm pretty sure that CCP is well aware of how we handle things there considering that it's one of the biggest player driven public channels by now and maybe one of the most controversial ones. If you have any such cases regarding the AG and GI channels where you have reason to believe that they concern RL and are meant seriously, let John forward them to me or any other mod. We take these kind of things very seriously and will act accordingly. I'm not joking here and I can only hope you won't either.
Concerning the topic at hand: I find it amusing that you all seem to assume that CCP is acting based on a hunch and without hard evidence. What makes you assume that they don't have recordings of at least some of your TS sessions, either because somebody gave them to them or they even made them on their own? After all your organisation is laughably easy to infiltrate and if I was to investigate any potential wrongdoings on a larger scale, that would be the first thing I'd do.
While I generally agree that there needs to be a way to appeal bans through different channels than the ones that have banned you in the first place (maybe there is in regular cases, I don't know) and you deserve to know what you were banned for (you have no legal right, no), I'm pretty sure that the situation here is different. CCP is first and foremost a business and unjustified mass bans are bad for business, as you loose subs and get a media backslash. I'm very sure that these bans went through and were sanctioned by higher management, especially as some kind of media reaction was to be expected, and as such there was no need to go through different GM's with your petitions. As a sidenote: I'd think twice to try to circumvent these bans with technical measures as that can have serious legal implications if you get caught.
Concerning the unneccessary long wall of text that James wrote: I'm not sure if he is really aware of what he really disclosed about your other operations there, but if I were you, I'd keep a *very* low profile during the next months. I wouldn't be surprised about another ban wave in the next few months if CCP follows up on it.
I can’t believe I'm gonna do this..cause I’m STILL pissed at you Loyal/Wolf and I’m going to remain pissed for a long time.
DeleteBUT.
For those who couldn’t make it through James’ WALL of text on TMC.
James brought up Bob Starseeker who is a goon recruiter, James alleges that Bob was a member of the BR that didn’t participate, and I’m talking about the ingame chat room part of the bonus room, not TS.
James claims that Bob wasn’t active although Bob had been made a Moderator of the room without Bob’s knowledge. I know this can happen because it’s happened to me.
It’s why I made the point to say in my post that I was sure that mistakes were made when the bans went out. It’s also why I said that I hoped that CCP would be willing to listen to someone who could offer proof they didn’t break the rules. I know that in all the times I’ve had alts in Minerbumping and BU I’ve never once seen Bob talking to anyone. I kept my eye on Bob because he was a goon recruiter and I would have loved to gotten postable clear cut evidence tying Goons and CODE together.
Loyal, there is an old saying:” If you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas”. But hopefully CCP used more than that old adage when they handed out the banns.
Wolf aka lowmoron - share you evidence about AG too but we all know you can't because you made it up to stir trouble and distract from code and the issue at hand.
DeleteAnother attempt driven by your rage and jealousy of AG failed. Next time keep to the topic which is about code and others perps being permabanned for harassment.
Keep up the double standards guys :D
DeleteAnyway, feel free to mail me in game if you want to talk further :)
Double standards? Seems only hypocrite is you wolf, you came on here to stir the shit up and try to deflect away from what code and others did and then try to blame it on everyone else. That makes you the one with double standards and incapable of an open mind so it is a waste of time anyone mailing you.
DeleteDidn't read the whole 16 pages. But page 3..caught my interest. I was searching on how the bonus room work.
ReplyDelete"Upon realizing they had been scammed, contestants weren't happy. Not because they had been driven to a breaking point by singing--they would've been perfectly content if they'd won--but because they lost all their in-game assets. Their reactions were actually more subdued on TeamSpeak than in an in-game channel, where they might have unleashed a torrent of profanity. Over 100 BRs were hosted. According to the BR regulars, there were only two or three incidents where the contestant really blew up. Some contestants took it well, or at least pretended to. Those with a positive attitude were recruited by Erotica to join his crew. They became regulars in the in-game channel and "x'ed up" to receive the assets of future victims."
i've guessed it. They started with small things to gain the victim's trust. then time to reel in the big one...onto TS. Then they grab all of the victim's assets and send him off after the guy found out the whole thing is a scam.
Now I really want to participate just for the sake of trolling them back because of these reasons:
1. I do not have billions of ISK. I set a limit to my money in wallet. Just like in real life..in case of robbery I'll just give them small chains.
2. I do not have expensive ships. I have cheap T1 frigates to gank pirates and CODES. If they ask me to give me all my assets to them.
Oh yea feel free man. Take it all.
*Warning! Wall of text incomming*
ReplyDeleteFirst of all thanks to Butthurt Miner and Wolf Soprano for proofing that they are able to write serious, non-trolling posts (in case of BM) and posts, that are longer than THE CODE ALWAYS WINS (in case of Wolf).
But let´s get back to the topic:
I have to say that I do agree with most of the things James mentioned in his very long post on The Mittani. But what I also need to say that it is very hard to critcize CCP in this situation. Because I really did not want to be the guy at CCP who had to decide wheter to ban E1 and her copycats and followers. And I think that, no matter what CCP had done in this situation, they would never had been able to satisfy everyone. Because the situation, that CCP was in at that point was just as complex and difficult as it could be.
First of all they had to prevent Eve from becoming a game where "everyone can harras everyone and noone cares". I think they managed to do this successfully.
But there are two more aspects. The first one is Eve´s unique status as a game where ganking, scamming, awoxing and other stuff are permitted by the EULA. And we can argue now of course about wheter the guys who got banned recently (and I am not talking about E1) were only scamming or if they were also harrassing. And here CCP did maybe not decide 100% correctly. But, as I mentioned above, it IS hard to criticize CCP here.
And the other aspect is probably the one where CCP failed most. And that is the we-just-bann-people-without-saying-why. And while this occured especially at E1´s ban, it also partly occured at the other bans. Banning someone for x ´ing up in a channel, or for only beeing member of a channel? Especially since noone can proof wheter other members of this channel did really harras people or not. That was probably not the right decission from CCPs side. But again, it´s hard to criticize CCP in this situation.
I think I could also write a lot more about this topic but I at least tried to keep this post "short"...
Fly safe o/
Poppi Starfox
Poppi, You don't have to warn ppl about wall of text incoming anymore... James set the bar yesterday with his Wall on TMC lolol
DeleteYour post is nothing compared to THAT monster...
#EVEBreakingNews
ReplyDeleteCODE. Knew What Evil Lurking Within Heart Of Order Knights
Amidst reports that high-level alliance executives lied to CCP in order to cover up their complicity in a number of scandals currently plaguing the alliance, sources confirmed Thursday that officials in CODE. have long been aware of what evil lurks deep within the heart of their members.
“Several key figures within the alliance definitely knew about the frigid depths of the soul, its underlying and cascading darkness, far earlier than they are claiming,” said one insider with knowledge of the situation, alleging that detailed information on CODE’s immutable wickedness was available to the alliance for months, if not years.
“It’s difficult to pinpoint the timeline of exactly who knew what and when, but it’s clear that CODE. was fully informed of the vile cloud of sinfulness that shrouds each and every one of us, leaving a foul sickness infecting the very essence of New Eden itself.”
Additional reports confirmed that James 315 was also knowledgeable of the vile perversion constantly lingering just beneath the surface of all his followers, having reportedly glimpsed the sickening visage of a demon in his own reflection sometime in late February.
Hit it right on the nail, dude.
ReplyDeleteI, for one, found James 315's article a compelling read and an argument that's difficult to dispute. Regardless of what you think of James' in-game persona, whenever he drops his RP hat and writes a serious article we all would do well to read it. These things are always well over 10 thousand words, so I understand that they can be intimidating, especially for those among us who think that anything that James has to say must automatically be wrong before they start, but there are few people as knowledgeable or as passionate about this game as James 315.
ReplyDeleteI can somewhat understand CCPs inconsistency. They are not a judicial system, they are a small video game company whose primary focus is developing game content. Only a small part of their resources is used for policing the online interactions of their hundreds of thousands of users. Realistically, they can't be expected to do it very well.
However, in situations like the latest round of permabannings, it is clear that the individuals were banned without any clear evidence that they had even engaged in any wrongdoing, only on a suspicion that they had been associated with activities which fall into the gray area, at worst. If there were recordings out there which proved their guilt, surely one of you antigankers would have found and leaked them by now.
So it's obvious that in this situation CCP got it wrong. There is no real shame in that, but they need to take steps now to acknowledge their mistake and reverse the bans. It's okay to be wrong - it's not okay to obstinately persist in your errors when they are obvious to nearly the entire community.
The obvious thing is, that you are a code-monkey, drunken with propaganda.
ReplyDeleteI don't give a shit, what you think of that jimmy guy, there are many others that love and understand EvE more than this narcistic idiot. He covers his crap with a lot of words that blinds the naive followers. A little literate people can see through this wall of crap and see the trash within.
Jimmy wants to tell CCP what they have to do...
Sure some little griefer smartass knows better than anyone else. You are a little bunch of griefers and NOT even close to the "entire comunity". When it comes to many from the comunity, the comunity came and demanded E1s ban. Thats the comunity.
EvE is not a Jury, CCP does not need to defend themself. EvE is their "Home" and they can throw out anyone they do not like. If you are my guest and crap on my table, i will throw you out of my window. If i see poo on the table i do not know its you or you friend, i throw you both. Easy as that.
P.S.
DeleteAnd if you don't like it:
Maybe is not the game for you.
To be clear, I was referring to the latest round of bannings, not to Erotica 1. Maybe if you had read my comment you would have known that. You prove my point for me.
DeleteLaughable that you think someone outside CCP needs to prove the bans were justified and you put the emphasis on anti-gankers to do it. How would anti-gankers have the proof? They weren't involved, surely it makes more sense to ask your perp ganker friends that were? Don't pretend you can't contact them, even I did that but the person I contacted pretended he wasn't banned and he wouldn't say a thing.
DeleteAnd there we have the answer to all. They won't come out and say because the evidence is very damning and they are very guilty.
The james315 wall of text is smog to try to misdirect people, he knows what really went on but he daren't tell the truth either and he would sooner try to undermine CCP. Doesn't that sound like someone who doesn't want the Eve game to progress because it sure does to me? It is a different issue but I often think james is more of a control freak and has to be right than someone who is looking out for Eve's best interests so again laughable that you think he is passionate about Eve. He is passionate about himself and his own interests just like mittani.
Anyway so there you have it, very obvious they are all guilty and CCP made the correct decision. Now it just takes people like you and the other ganker whiners to stop crying, raging and attempting to misdirect people and to get over it all and accept it.
@Haedonism Bot
ReplyDeleteYoung one, of course i read your pile of crap.
As is said, Jimmy doesn't love EvE more than i do AND he doesn't know more about EvE than i do. I find this statement offending. You where recommending to follow a narcistic idiot, who doesn' know better, but he wnats to become "EvE famous". It is your own idol that makes connections to the infamous E1 case over and over again.
Next:
Again "your" oppinion as in the ganker-community is not the oppinion of the EvE community. You griefers are only a very small part of EvE. CCP started to show you, that you are not the beloved children that you dreamed to, but just a bunch of griefers, that anoys beginners and add the worst kind of gameplay. You are even less people that your idols lets to know you. Considering the AT, CODE. could not muster up 12 People. TWELFE! The completely unprofessional childish behaviour at the AT12 showed, that CODE. is just some unstable Entity, unable to keep their statements (in business thats like a promise). No reason to give you special treatment, vice versa.
So whats with this banwave?
In the forums?
already done, no outcry of the community. CODE - Propganda gets closed earlier now. MB? Own Idol moved own, now showing movies. TMC? big wave of WHO CARES for this bunch of cocksuckers. Some admit CCP *might* have been making errors.